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Indubioproreo
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Posted: 13/June/2004 at 16:22 | IP Logged  |  Copy the link in order to refer to this post Quote Indubioproreo

ES?

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Posted: 13/June/2004 at 17:30 | IP Logged  |  Copy the link in order to refer to this post Quote EngineerSoldier

Indubioproreo wrote:
ES? What are you going to do? What are you going to tell Mr.Hitler?
 

We told Mr. Hitler that he cannot rule anymore, then we change the regime and install Democratic institutions in his place. I'd do it again. We did it again in Iraq. I, unfortunately was a fool and waited too long to join the military, so I missed this one too.



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twiw
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Posted: 14/June/2004 at 04:28 | IP Logged  |  Copy the link in order to refer to this post Quote twiw

EngineerSoldier wrote:

Indubioproreo wrote:
ES? What are you going to do? What are you going to tell Mr.Hitler?
 

We told Mr. Hitler that he cannot rule anymore, then we change the regime and install Democratic institutions in his place. I'd do it again. We did it again in Iraq. I, unfortunately was a fool and waited too long to join the military, so I missed this one too.

 

As usual you're dodging the question. Indub as well as myself have asked you a simple question: What would you have done when you would have been in the position to rule Switzerland during WW2.

I appreciated tude dogs reply as was providing a good example for a well-thought answer. And he knows that if you're surrounded by 20 heavily armed Hells Angels on a lonely place at darkest night that it wouldn't be really smart to pull out your Swiss Army knife....

So take a look at the map Indub provided and tell us what you would have done.



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Edited by tude dog on 14/June/2004 at 06:19


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twiw wrote:
EngineerSoldier wrote:

Indubioproreo wrote:
ES? What are you going to do? What are you going to tell Mr.Hitler?
 

We told Mr. Hitler that he cannot rule anymore, then we change the regime and install Democratic institutions in his place. I'd do it again. We did it again in Iraq. I, unfortunately was a fool and waited too long to join the military, so I missed this one too.

 

As usual you're dodging the question. Indub as well as myself have asked you a simple question: What would you have done when you would have been in the position to rule Switzerland during WW2.

I appreciated tude dogs reply as was providing a good example for a well-thought answer. And he knows that if you're surrounded by 20 heavily armed Hells Angels on a lonely place at darkest night that it wouldn't be really smart to pull out your Swiss Army knife....

So take a look at the map Indub provided and tell us what you would have done.

 

All Europeans are collectively responsible for being retarded. If the swiss just taught the Germans about the freedom bullshit before everything went to hell, WWII never would have happened.



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twiw
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Posted: 16/June/2004 at 01:22 | IP Logged  |  Copy the link in order to refer to this post Quote twiw

EngineerSoldier wrote:
twiw wrote:
EngineerSoldier wrote:

Indubioproreo wrote:
ES? What are you going to do? What are you going to tell Mr.Hitler?
 

We told Mr. Hitler that he cannot rule anymore, then we change the regime and install Democratic institutions in his place. I'd do it again. We did it again in Iraq. I, unfortunately was a fool and waited too long to join the military, so I missed this one too.

 

As usual you're dodging the question. Indub as well as myself have asked you a simple question: What would you have done when you would have been in the position to rule Switzerland during WW2.

I appreciated tude dogs reply as was providing a good example for a well-thought answer. And he knows that if you're surrounded by 20 heavily armed Hells Angels on a lonely place at darkest night that it wouldn't be really smart to pull out your Swiss Army knife....

So take a look at the map Indub provided and tell us what you would have done.

 

All Europeans are collectively responsible for being retarded. If the swiss just taught the Germans about the freedom bullshit before everything went to hell, WWII never would have happened.

 

It is not about what the Swiss could have taught the Germans (?????) but about what YOU would have decided when put into the position to decide about the fate of the Swiss.

And you still didn't gave an answer.



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twiw wrote:
It is not about what the Swiss could have taught the Germans (?????) but about what YOU would have decided when put into the position to decide about the fate of the Swiss. And you still didn't gave an answer.

I did so give an answer. The answer to individuals and their problems with Europe is to get the hell out, a la America. The solution when European bullshit threatens to spill out of the continent is to go in and fix it. I'd leave then I'd come back with an Army.



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Posted: 16/June/2004 at 02:31 | IP Logged  |  Copy the link in order to refer to this post Quote twiw

No answer at all. You have been asked how you would have decided about the politics of Switzerland during WW2 - if you would have been the one in postition to make such decisions.

a) To lick Hitlers ass?

b) Or to sacrifice 4 million Swiss and 600.000 refugees to the Nazis army?

What is it, a or b?? Or maybe you have a c in your mind? A reasonable c?




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EngineerSoldier
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twiw wrote:

No answer at all. You have been asked how you would have decided about the politics of Switzerland during WW2 - if you would have been the one in postition to make such decisions.

a) To lick Hitlers ass?

b) Or to sacrifice 4 million Swiss and 600.000 refugees to the Nazis army?

What is it, a or b?? Or maybe you have a c in your mind? A reasonable c?

 

Wait for the Americans to arrive. THEN JOIN THE f**kING FIGHT.



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Posted: 16/June/2004 at 05:22 | IP Logged  |  Copy the link in order to refer to this post Quote tude dog

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10 005182 

EngineerSoldier wrote:
twiw wrote: It is not about what the Swiss could have taught the Germans (?????) but about what YOU would have decided when put into the position to decide about the fate of the Swiss. And you still didn't gave an answer. I did so give an answer. The answer to individuals and their problems with Europe is to get the hell out, a la America. The solution when European bullshit threatens to spill out of the continent is to go in and fix it. I'd leave then I'd come back with an Army.

hmm,,you and everybody else,,

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10 005267

Problem was, there was no where to go, and we can't blame Switzerland for this.

 

Edited by tude dog on 16/June/2004 at 05:26


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twiw
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ES, did you read the links tude provided?



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  Funny how things work....Prescott Bush funded Hitler.....then we had to go and fight him and millions died.......then George Bush funded Saddam.....then we had to go fight him and who knows how many died.....then George W. Bush goes into business with Osama and his brother.......then we had to go fight him and who knows how many will die.........what is Dubya's kids doing? Maybe we should look into that to see who we must fight next.....LOL!



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THE UNITED STATES AND THE HOLOCAUST

ES SAID: So now we're responsible for the holocaust, I see.

 

 

Rescue was not a priority for the United States government. Nor was it always clear to Allied policy makers how they could pursue large-scale rescue actions behind German lines.

ES SAID: we liberated the whole fucking continent in a global war against tyrany at the cost of more than 400,000 innocent American lives. What the fuck more do you want? It wasn't our fucking war. We didn't fucking cause it. If you want to suggest otherwise you can fuck yourself.

Due in part to antisemitism, isolationism, the Depression, and xenophobia,

ES SAID: holy shit, ever learned about the logical fallacy of beggin the question?

the refugee policy of the U.S. State Department (led by Secretary of State Cordell Hull) made it difficult for refugees to obtain entry visas.

ES SAID: gosh, hard to get millions of people into the country DURING A FUCKING WORLD WAR? that seems unreasonable.

The State Department also delayed publicizing reports of genocide.

ES Said: We didn't know they were true until we liberated the fucking camps. Who would believe such things? The whole thing was irrational. Why would Hitler do that? Just to be evil? Doesn't make sense and didn't aid even Germany's other evil aims.

In August 1942, the State Department received a cable confirming Nazi plans for the murder of Europe's Jews.

ES Said: now think about how much evidence we had on Saddam. (more than that) Hey he was supporting the murder of jews too, what a coincidence.

The report, sent by Gerhart Riegner (the representative in Geneva of the World Jewish Congress), was not passed on. The State Department asked American Rabbi Stephen Wise, who also received the report, to refrain from announcing it. Reports of Nazi atrocities often were not publicized in full by the American press. In 1943, Polish courier Jan Karski informed President Franklin D. Roosevelt of reports of mass murder received from Jewish leaders in the Warsaw ghetto. No immediate executive action was taken.

ES Said: believe it or not it takes some time to build an Army from scratch and invade a fortress continent. 

 

 

On April 19, 1943, U.S. and British representatives met in Bermuda to find solutions to wartime refugee<

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EngineerSoldier wrote:
THE UNITED STATES AND THE HOLOCAUST ES SAID: So now we're responsible for the holocaust, I see.

Not at all, no one ever said that.

EngineerSoldier wrote:
Rescue was not a priority for the United States government. Nor was it always clear to Allied policy makers how they could pursue large-scale rescue actions behind German lines. ES SAID: we liberated the whole fucking continent in a global war against tyrany at the cost of more than 400,000 innocent American lives. What the fuck more do you want? It wasn't our fucking war. We didn't fucking cause it. If you want to suggest otherwise you can fuck yourself.

Dude, ." Nor was it always clear to Allied policy makers how they could pursue large-scale rescue actions behind German lines."

What's your gripe? A little thin skinned?

EngineerSoldier wrote:
Due in part to antisemitism, isolationism, the Depression, and xenophobia, ES SAID: holy shit, ever learned about the logical fallacy of beggin the question?

Ever learn of keeping things in context?

EngineerSoldier wrote:
the refugee policy of the U.S. State Department (led by Secretary of State Cordell Hull) made it difficult for refugees to obtain entry visas. ES SAID: gosh, hard to get millions of people into the country DURING A FUCKING WORLD WAR? that seems unreasonable.

The SS St.Louis had just over 900 people and was denied entry, please try to stay on topic and context.

EngineerSoldier wrote:
The State Department also delayed publicizing reports of genocide. ES Said: We didn't know they were true until we liberated the fucking camps. Who would believe such things? The whole thing was irrational. Why would Hitler do that? Just to be evil? Doesn't make sense and didn't aid even Germany's other evil aims.

Your claim is simply not true. We knew.

EngineerSoldier wrote:
The report, sent by Gerhart Riegner (the representative in Geneva of the World Jewish Congress), was not passed on. The State Department asked American Rabbi Stephen Wise, who also received the report, to refrain from announcing it. Reports of Nazi atrocities often were not publicized in full by the American press. In 1943, Polish courier Jan Karski informed President Franklin D. Roosevelt of reports of mass murder received from Jewish leaders in the Warsaw ghetto. No immediate executive action was taken. ES Said: believe it or not it takes some time to build an Army from scratch and invade a fortress continent.

Dude, the Warsaw Ghetto happened before Pearl Harbor! IT WAS NOT A SECRET TO OUR GOVERNMENT! A LEAST A FUCKING LETTER OF PROTEST, OR SOMETHING!

EngineerSoldier wrote:
By the spring of 1944, the Allies knew of the gassings at Auschwitz-Birkenau. Jewish leaders pleaded unsuccessfully with the U.S. government to bomb the gas chambers and railways leading to the camp. From August 20 to September 13, 1944, the U.S. Air Force bombed the Auschwitz-Monowitz industrial complex, less than five miles from the gas chambers in Birkenau. However, the U.S. maintained its policy of non-involvement in rescue, and bombed neither the gas chambers nor the railways used to transport prisoners. Well we wanted those dirty jews dead, obviously. You know we had a whole fucking German military to drop bombs on, and we didn't have enough bombs for that either.

And there you have a great point. It is better to turn a blind eye to mass murder so we can incinerate a hundred thousand civilians in Dresden. And boy, what a militarily significant target that was.

give me a break.



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Posted: 01/July/2004 at 14:01 | IP Logged  |  Copy the link in order to refer to this post Quote Indubioproreo

 Great reply!

EngineerSoldier wrote:
ES Said: We didn't know they were true until we liberated the fucking camps. Who would believe such things?

Then I'm wondering why Germany as a whole was balmed for the genocide (And is until today). The Germans knew less about the genocide than the US did. The German public never saw any reports, documents or similar about the genocide, of course not. But the US government did.

And tude dog is completely right: Instead of turning German cities and their civilians into ashes you could have used some of these bombs on Auschwitz and the other death-camps. But you didn't care.

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twiw wrote:
I'm actually not frustrated about the blame Switzerland gets for their doings in WW2. That blame is fully justified, I'd be the last one who would deny that.

Frustrating is that most people only know "Stolen Gold, killed Jews & Nazi collaboration", are repeating that over and over, and think they have a point.

I have asked all and every of them what THEY would have done when being in the position to rule Switzerland at that time. If they would have sacrificed a cnoutry that was completely surrounded by the Fascists (Germans and Italians) and 100% dependable from imports - as Switzerland has zero natural resources. Imports from the Fascist of course, if you're surrounded by them you won't get anything else.

I never got an answer except for such brillant replies like "marching against the Nazis and dying with honor blablabla".

Fact is that we dealt with the Nazis a huge lot (as well as with the Allies, but not quite as much with them), we have been the only country in the world that dealt with the gold the Nazis stole from the occupied countries national banks, we have taken much of the gold that was broken out of the gassed Jews teeth, we have delievered lots of weapons to Nazi Germany - we have been the devils bankers.

Without Switzerland Hitler wouldn't have been able to finance his war latest in winter 1943. The war would have been over by then, without Switzerlands money-washing. Most people don't know about this.

Fact is that the Swiss suddenly said "The ship is full", meaning that they could not take more Jewish refugees because they claimed not to have enough space for them. The Swiss customs sent thousands of Jews dircetly back into Germany, causing their death in the Nazis gas chambers.

Fact is that the only reason why Hitler did not invade Switzerland, was that they financed his war through their trade with the Nazi-gold. The Swiss army was a joke compared to the Wehrmacht, and Hitler would have invaded them within one day. That is not an exaggeration, the Swiss master plan was that all amjor cities would have been given up in case of an attack, and that the entire Swiss army would have moved into the mountains, the so-called Gotthardfestung. Hitler would have been sitting in Zurich, drinking a coffee, while the Swiss would have defended some worthless mountains - that would never have been attacked by Hitler. It's not only me who considers the Swiss master plan as one of the most id**tic military tactics ever. The still-alive Swiss myth, that the large Swiss militia made Hitler hesitate from invading is a bad joke. A man, who conquered entire Europe, attacked Russia with the biggest military effort ever and wanted to rule the world would not even have hesitated for a second when there would have been a proper reason to invade tiny Switzerland.

And that reason he never had. To keep the Nazis bankers in Switzerland alive and working was by far more important than any advantage he would have gotton out of a conquerred Switzerland.

 

The question is, what should they have done otherwise. Sure, they could have limited their gold-deals with the Nazis, they could have let more Jews into their borders. But they could never have completely stopped it. They were 100% dependable from Hitlers good will. It was Hitler who pressured them into the closing of the borders for the Jews.

In the end, that left only two options: Either to deal with the Nazis and to sell our asses for the best price - or to die in honor. Most don't know but the Swiss constitution makes it illegal to surrender or to show a white flag. Anyone doing so, be it a common soldier or the Swiss general - are to be shot as traitors.

The choices were to sacrifice an entire nation for moral goals - or to survive and to collaborate with the living devil.

What would your choice have been?

 

I posted that somewhere

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